fresh_eyes fresh_eyes Show full post »
[Deleted User] [Deleted User]
Hi Fresh,

Hopefully I'll have more info for you on your return!

annette
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[Deleted User] [Deleted User]
Hi All,

I'm going to be out of town for the next three weeks so won't be able to do the testing I want to - Just know I've not set this conundrum aside.

annette
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bowandarrowapparel bowandarrowapparel
Hi there!

I've been using Michael Garcia's natural fructose vat and have had similarly disappointing affects long after the dyeing process. The fabric is a 100% organic cotton batiste so is very thin. It is scoured prior to dyeing and the correct pH is maintained though out the dying process. The fading discoloration is the same as everyone here is describing. Pieces that are folded fade and discolor along the folded edges and garments that are hung fade wherever they are exposed to ambient, indirect light. On a rack with many other garments, this usually means they fade along the outside and at the bottom if they are longer. Thought it may be helpful to the diagnosis to know that this is happening with other dyeing methods as well. The person who taught me this technique also has no idea why this could be happening.

Thanks!
Anna
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rjswit rjswit
Hello All,
I see that this discussion is several months old, but I'd be interested in knowing if you ever solved the mystery. I've been using pre-reduced indigo, Thiox and Soda Ash. I've also experienced the whitening/bleaching out at the fold lines. I tried halving my recipe while keeping the amount of water the same, thus diluting its strength. The vat became the nice yellowy-green it's supposed to be. Not much of a flower, though. I've made several vats this way, dyed yards of 100% Robert Kaufman pfd cotton, Dharma 50/50 cotton/linen blend, 100% cotton sateen and some 100% cotton denim. Sometimes I still get the bleaching at the fold line. also if a piece is folded the top side changes. The lighter areas have gotten even lighter or turned white. Some of the lighter shades have gotten a greenish hue. I think these are the same problems the rest of you have mentioned. Has anyone resolved the issue?
Thank you, Rachel
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[Deleted User] [Deleted User]
Rachel,

Thanks for your input. We still haven't come up with a solid reason for this fading, especially in light of the fact that it doesn't seem to be a result of exposure to UV.

annette
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Jacquardmod Jacquardmod
We have been talking about this further and we think that the Soda ash and or the reducing agent being left over in the fabric is the culprit. It is reducing the color once again and is concentrated in the folds just as water or another liquid would be. Our chemist suggests very thoroughly rinsing and adding a dilute amount of vinegar in the rinse to neutralize any soda ash remaining.
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suzconnors suzconnors
I have also had these problems. Edges and folds getting lighter, areas getting lighter or turning green.
I rinse my products well, actually I typically let my indigo dyed products sit in dark for about a week before rinsing, then I soak in very hot water with vinegar for a minimum of 30 minutes- this water will actually turn green sometimes. After this I do a hot water wash with synthrapol and then rinse thoroughly and line dry. Since I sell my products, this is a problem.
Sometimes if things have been hanging in the studio for awhile and I am noticing the fading and greenish hues- I do a warm water rinse- believe it or not, everything returns to a brighter blue. I have been "freshening" up my inventory like this on a regular basis.

Someone told me that thiox has a shelf life- so how does one know if the thiox or color remover they are using is fresh. what about Soda Ash? I was also told that my humid conditions (my studio is on the florida waterfront) could be causing my items to continue to oxidize. I have noticed that some of the pieces that I have "freshened" are not fading as quickly and maintaining their bright blue color longer.
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Jacquardmod Jacquardmod
With the rinse running green, I think that is good evidence that the reducing agent is still in the fabric. It makes even greater sense when you think that the folds are least accessible to the folds where the color is fading. This is making me thing they are definitely being reduced by the reducing agent laying in hiding within the fabric.
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Ernie Ernie
I recently attended Surface Design Conference where indigo was discussed. Seems that some actually boil their cotton dyed indigo as a last step. Others used the vinegar and ivory soap two step post wash, some re-cooked indigo in orvis paste like a post scour. I am new to dyes, but use the Maiwa organic recipes and vinegar post soak. So far only the light blue colors have a little yellowing on cotton. Silk color is holding.
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Jacquardmod Jacquardmod
Yes we keep getting more feedback that a little "post dyeing processing" works best if you are having trouble keeping the dye from fading. A wash with vinegar seems to be a common practice.
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Aizome Aizome
I know there has not been recent discussion on this topic, but I am hoping someone can revisit, and contribute any further information. I am a conservator of Japanese paintings, and used the pre-reduced indigo for the first time for a scroll mounting. I have used many different natural dyes in the past, as well as chemical, and was very excited to use an easier form of indigo. The fabric was a fine silk and the pale blue results were exquisite with the large scale 17th century ink painting.
Imagine our dismay when, during a recent clean-up, we discovered trimmings from the finished scroll that had been left near a window were horribly faded in less than two months. A panicky check of the scroll (mounted face out on a drying board as is customary for several months) showed it had also lost its blue tones and "faded" to a pale greenish teal. The scroll was not exposed near a window, exposed only to our UV filtered work lights in our lab.
I followed the directions in using the pre-reduced indigo with Thiox and soda ash, both pre-washed the silk, then rinsed thoroughly (several hours) after dyeing and used a vinegar rinse in the end.
Because the scroll is a complex structure of silk and paper linings, further rinsing or other chemical tweaking at this point is not an option. The only option is to completely redo the scroll, with newly dyed fabric or to accept the greenish tone. My only other concern is will it continue to fade and revert to the original beige tones of the undyed silk? Any comments would be most welcome!
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Judyjudy Judyjudy
, CA. 94954

Hello, I feel I must make you aware of non functional results from Jaquard Co. Indigo tye dye kit purchased f om you.

If it was a one off I would probably chalk it up to experience, but when I see in this forum board several complaints about less than desired results going back to 2014, without resolution,I am questioning the effectiveness of this product.
I purchased two kits to use in a craft class, and we had beautiful results, which then just about disappeared before our eyes ! Talk about heartbreaking. So either the dye is sub standard or the thiox is old ? , something is not right, then the suggestion of setting with vinegar, which is not the recommended method for indigo I find puzzling.
So is this happening because this is a synthetic product ? Welcome a real solution.
Sad Shibori crafter
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Jacquardmod Jacquardmod
First I would like to dispel a misconception that our dye is synthetic. No we do not use synthetic Indigo dyes. Ours comes from actual plants grown in the ground.

Less than desirable results and fading before your eyes are not the same thing.

Indigo is not a very washfast dye, we know this as jeans fade over their entire lifetime from washing.

Indigo is not a very lightfast dye. Only very carefully preserved Indigo is available from antiquity and those have not seen UV light at all.

Next I would ask is disappearing before our eyes accurate? I have never heard of this. The oxygen in the air keeps it blue. Without being exposed to a reduction agent, this seems impossible. The main hypothesis we have is that maybe some reduction agent is still in the fiber and is doing its job fading the dye when oxygen is not present when the fabric is folded in a closet or closed container with limited oxygen.

A thorough rinsing should be all you need. A rinse with vinegar was suggested as a way to return the cloth to a neutral pH in case that was the culprit. We have been unable to repeat these results with Indigo young or old.

I like keeping this thread going so we can get as much information as possible. If you could outline your procedure, that would be most helpful. A real solution is something we are committed to, but being able to reproduce these results makes us reliant on our customers for their experience.

I for one have done lots and lots of Indigo dyeing and things I have dyed 4-5 years ago, are just fine and still beautiful. I am really interested in solving the issue though, so any new information you provide is extremely valuable. +--
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suzconnors suzconnors
I have had the unfortunate case of my shibori indigo dyed SILK disappearing before my eyes- ONLY on silk have I had this problem. Imagine doing an entire stitched piece and after 6 months of being in the studio, the pattern is barely visible. I have not had this problem on cottons or linens.
I am using pre reduced indigo with thiox and soda ash. I am rinising items well.
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Jacquardmod Jacquardmod
This is so unusual. Chemically I cannot understand it. Indigo can fade in the sun, and it can be reduced to the green form and rinsed, but simply fading makes no sense to me.

How long did it take to fade was it over the course of secs, min, or hours?
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